Rachel House Opened Up About Not Returning As Gramma Tala In The Live-Action Remake Of “Moana” And The Journey Of Playing Her Character
Warning: Spoilers for Moana 2 ahead!
Born in Aotearoa (the Māori name for New Zealand), Rachel House is an actor and director who has certainly made her mark on the industry. Many Americans will know her as the voice behind the beloved Gramma Tala in the animated Moana movies or as Topaz in Thor: Ragnarok, but you can also find her in Pasifika classics like Whale Rider, Boy, Hunt for the Wilderpeople, and Next Goal Wins.
A prolific voice actor, she’s enriched countless movies and shows, including Pixar’s Soul, Cowboy Bebop, and The Legend of Vox Machina. She also voiced the Māori language dubs for her character Gramma Tala in Moana, as well as Mamá Coco in Coco.
On top of all that, she made her feature film directorial debut last year with The Mountain, a coming-of-age comedy-drama about reconnecting with Māori culture. This woman can do it all!
For BuzzFeed’s Voices of the Pacific series, I sat down with Rachel to talk about her time as Gramma Tala, her upcoming projects, and more. The moment she saw me, she called me darling, reminding me of my aunties in Aotearoa. We connected instantly and ended up having a beautiful chat that I’ll remember for a very long time.
Editor’s note: This interview has been edited for length and clarity.
BuzzFeed: You voiced Gramma Tala in both Moana movies. What was it like returning to your character for the sequel?
Rachel House: It’s always a joy to play that character. I went in the other day to do a one-off job through Disney, but for another branch of the franchise. Being able to access her again, it always fills my heart with so much joy. When I get to play that character, I’m drawing from all my ancestors and my elders that I’ve been around or that I’ve been inspired by. So, to revisit it feels like an honor every time. I have just adored the journey of playing her.
It’s funny because Rena Owen, who we consider a rangatira [leader], she’s playing her in the live action, and everyone seems to think that would cause me some sadness or hurt. But in actual fact, I just feel like it couldn’t have gone to a better, more deserving actor. She is someone that we all admire and look up to. I congratulated her, and we talked briefly about it. And it was really interesting, going in there and bringing up Gramma Tala again, with the knowledge that it probably will be the last time. That was sad, understanding that I may never get to play her again.
But I did a play a long time ago that [author] Witi Ihimaera wrote. It was called Woman Far Walking, where I got to play an old kuia [elder woman] who was born on the day of the signing of the Treaty of Waitangi. She could not die, so she witnessed all of the major events that impacted us as a people from the time of colonization. There was joy in there, but it was such a painful journey that this character and I had to go on every night. It was a two-hander. And she is a character that I really drew on for the role. So in many ways, playing Gramma Tala, it sat very similarly in where I placed it in my body, where it came from. It was such an honor. Seriously, I love her.
Moana 2 has been widely praised for its absolutely stunning animation. What can you share about that process?
I was in LA recently, and Jared Bush, one of the directors of the original Moana, brought me into the Disney studios, and it was so great. We had lunch, but I went and visited the head of animation for Moana 2. She took me through her process of creating the physicality of characters. It was really extraordinary. We have her to thank for a lot, actually, because she really drills into her research. She watches a lot of videos, and she’s got a lot of resources that she draws from. Then, she literally gets up and films herself, with the physicality of each character, so that she can then create them. It was mind-blowing.
So, whilst I understand that voicing this character is breathing life into it, we have the privilege of coming in when there has been so much work done by so many people. I was so pleased they went to great lengths to gather the Pacific storytelling trust. They got people from all around the Pacific to come in with their knowledge and help create this world. The directors and the producer went on a big journey throughout the Pacific as well, and met many people and were able to draw on their experience.
I do feel like with that storytelling trust made up of our people, it really gave all those details. I read your article about all the little things that, as a Samoan woman, [you] really appreciated. And I agree, those details were phenomenal, weren’t they? That comes from extensive research, but it also comes straight from our people, and that storytelling trust ensures that those details were there.
Gramma Tala showing up right when Moana needs her most is such an emotional moment at the end. What message do you hope people take away from that powerful scene?
To never feel alone. Remember that we walk with our ancestors. This is intrinsic to our beliefs; I feel it. If you remember that, it can get you through a lot in life.
In terms of that moment, I requested that [Moana songwriter and composer] Opetaia Foaʻi was there. He was, to me, so instrumental in both films. He really brought his mana [spirit/power], and the culture he represented so beautifully, and the sound of our people. But when we were in the studio recording those final moments, I’m just like, “I’m not a singer.” I trained as an opera singer, but that was a long time ago, and I’ve lost a lot of my range. It was so important for me to have Opetaia in the room, sitting right there with Olivia, his astoundingly talented daughter. I sing, and then I look at him, and he’d have these tiny expressions that I could see he wasn’t happy, but he’d go — he’s so gentle and kind — “Oh yeah, no, that was good.” Okay. Again. We kept doing it until Opetaia and Olivia were happy, and only then could we move on.
It actually took quite a while. We had people who really wanted that technical performance, and then we had Opetaia and me, who really wanted to ensure that the sound was coming from the right emotional place. So, having him and Olivia in the room really ensured that for me because it was about sharing that moment together. It was coming from that really deep well of tīpuna [ancestors]. I’m not a particularly strong singer, but it felt right, and that’s what was most important.
How do you balance staying true to your heritage while participating in an industry often dominated by non-Pacific Islander narratives? And is there a moment where you felt especially empowered and proud of your Māori identity?
It’s been through theater. As soon as I graduated from drama school, I really wanted to start working in Māori theater, and I managed to do that for almost 10 years. It taught me so much about my culture, and it was inspiring. What I’m really aware of now is that it’s so important to tell stories that have levity and joy. Particularly coming from the Māori theater space, we told a lot of stories about our trauma, and I sort of feel that we’re heading into more storytelling, where that certainly could be a drive, but it isn’t the pervasive feeling that we get. The most obvious person who has really brought a lot of joy into our stories in the public realm, of course, is Taika Waititi. It changed everything, I think, because we could all see that we could tell these stories that weren’t so full of our historical trauma. That trauma is always there. That history is present; it shapes and forms us. So inevitably, a lot of the characters, that’s where they come from, where we all come from. But moving forward, there’s a lot to celebrate.
We’ve got the kōhanga reo [Māori language revival] generation who are changing things in our country. That kōhanga reo movement happened back in the ’80s by all those amazing women; boy, has it paid off. We see it in our leaders and our young, brilliant minds. Leaders in politics, absolutely, but also just leading us through these difficult times, particularly recently in this country.
I’ve been away for about a year, and I made it home in time to see my stepdaughter performing at Te Matatini, which is a lot like the Merrie Monarch and various other cultural celebrations. Boy, are they tough. There’s a lot of pressure in those competitions. It was all done in Taranaki, which is where I whakapapa [descend from]. Two of my tribes are from there. So, it was just absolutely glorious. There were so many young people, and it was a beautiful intergenerational mix of people who were there watching. Our language is strong. Our culture is strong.
You’ve worked with Taika Waititi on many projects, from Hunt for the Wilderpeople to Next Goal Wins to Thor: Ragnarok. What’s something that would surprise people to learn about him?
Oh! He wants to master the skill of making a hāngī. The last time I spoke to him, he was talking with great pride about how he managed to pull off a hāngī at Christmas time, which I thought was pretty neat. The hāngī is an underground oven, so you [Samoan] fellas have the umu. I haven’t witnessed this; I just heard him showing off about it. It’s hard work. You gotta get the right stones that don’t explode and that give enough heat and retain heat. It tastes delicious. Do you like umu?
BuzzFeed: I finally went back to Samoa a few years ago, and we got to eat the food from the umu! Oh my goodness, so good, the palusami.
I love palusami! Here are my other favorite dishes of your people: panipopo [coconut buns], oka [raw fish in coconut cream], 100%, and chop suey.
BuzzFeed: Sapasui forever!
If you could work with any Pacific Islander, who would it be and why?
I am quite obsessed with Luciane Buchanan at the moment. She’s amazing. And no offense to anyone, but The Night Agent, sometimes I love that genre, and sometimes I don’t. But she is what made me enjoy that show in particular, and Simone Kessell, who played her aunty in the beginning. I am very excited by Luciane as a Polynesian, what’s going on for her. I just feel like she’s exploding, and it’s wonderful to watch.
Uli Latukefu is just one of the most delightful human beings. He’s a friend of mine. We worked together before, but he is definitely someone I’d love to work with again in the future because he’s wonderful.
And Simone Kessell — I want to work with Simone Kessell.
I spoke with Simone for this interview series — she’s hoping to do a project with you, too! It sounded like it’s not for sure yet, but is that something that you think is gonna happen?
I really do. I’m so excited about it. What’s great about getting older is understanding that you can take control of things. You’re not powerless. You can actually say, “I want to work with Simone Kessell,” or “I want to do a really cool genre that I really like, so I’m going to do what it takes to make that happen.” I’ve got three projects that I’m working on at the moment. None of them are funded. [Laughs] Yet! But they’re all happening, and that’s the most important thing.
BuzzFeed: Yes! I love what you’re saying about the determination to expand into genres we love. I’m writing a fantasy romance inspired by Pasifika mythology because that’s what I love, and I’m always waiting for it.
Oh, we are all waiting for that! Please, can you write it, and can I make the film? [Laughs] This is the genre we are truly waiting for, to see our people in. We’ve got all the talent. But we need the story.
Last year, you made your feature film directorial debut with The Mountain. What did you take away from that experience? Is directing movies something you want to continue exploring?
Absolutely, I am currently working on something now, which I’m really excited about. What I took away from it was the importance of collaboration. Something that happens in our industry a lot — which makes me a bit sad because we can approach the process of storytelling in a better way — is everybody really wants to, rather than understanding that we’re telling the story together, participate in a way that makes them above the project or something. I don’t know quite how to explain that. But what I took away from directing that and a TV series last year in Australia is how important it is to work with people who want to collaborate, who want to share a vision, and also who want to uplift each other. That’s really important. That, of course, comes from our beliefs and principles, manaakitanga, to uplift each other.
I’m lucky because I worked with Desray Armstrong, who was a brilliant wahine [woman] Māori producer. I also worked with Carthew Neal, who is a really exceptional and thorough producer. They both really embraced us as a team, and when you’ve had that, that’s what you want to move forward with, working with generous leaders who are there to help. Also, the joy when you find collaborators who want to listen to you as much as you want to listen to them. It’s wonderful. It’s really important to come in as a director and have vision. It’s great to be able to communicate that with your HOD [head of department], but I also equally understand how important it is to listen to them. You’ve gotta come in together and share the vision.
For Pacific Islanders, there are so many aspects of our cultures that we hold close to our hearts, from our foods to our dances to our tattoos. What’s your favorite part of your culture?
It’s our relationship with nature. It’s the way we see nature. It’s what I tried to really infuse The Mountain with, actually, as I want people to remember that we used to see — well, a lot of us still do — but that we used to see nature as family. So, if we can start thinking that way again, we might treat her better.
Do you have a favorite Māori food?
Green pāua [abalone] and kina [sea urchin]. Equal. I didn’t like kina that much when I was growing up, and then in the last 20 years, it’s become an obsession. It’s like the sea, but it’s cream. Sea cream.
What advice do you have for young Pacific Islander creatives?
Hurry up, come on. Find your people who are really interested and committed and can be creative with you. Find those creators that you really vibe with and get on with it, or start doing it yourself. Write some stuff down. It’s so important to not wait around for our stories to happen if you feel really passionately about them.
And also, something that I have loved about talking to you is that your book is a genre that I have [hardly ever] heard any of our people attempt. I’d really love to see us tackling all the genres. I’m really, really excited by that. I do want to mention there is a — we fondly call them Mozzies, Māori Australians — a brilliant creative whose work I think we’re going to be seeing a lot more of. Her name is Maria Lewis, and she loves all of that kind of superhero stuff, the sci-fi realm, and fantasy. I’m so excited by what we’re going to start seeing from her in particular because she is someone who is going to put our culture into these genres that we’ve never seen our culture in before. Many others are out there, and I just can’t wait. We deserve to understand that we can be in everything, and it’s up to us now to execute that.
Finally, what does being Pacific Islander mean to you?
It’s everything. I feel so proud to be part of a culture that is connected so strongly to nature. I’m not saying that people who aren’t strong in their identity won’t be fulfilled necessarily. But it’s a wonderful thing to know who you are and to walk with your ancestors, whether that be literally or figuratively for you. It’s a wonderful, empowering place to be.
